The Weckl Zone

[rhythmatician]

Whatsup with the political correctness crap??? As if you can't say someone sucks without offending others? It seems to me that offense is more valued than truth...

I got to back up Jonthibault in that there has to be an absolute legitimate standard of reference for which one can judge drum excellence: technique, phrasing, time keeping, versatility, reading and drumset interpretation, musicality, musical accomplishments, etc. The application of these categories of excellence will emerge drummers that are not just "different" but BETTER!

Purely from the category of musical accomplishments, no drummer alive has more impressive bio-work-history-data than Vinnie Colaiuta..NO ONE!! This guy proabably turns down more calls than he accepts..

From this perspective, Virgil is not even worthy to carry jockstrap of Vinnie (offended anyone?). Yes Gadd, Weckl, and Porcaro have pretty impressive resumes, but if you apply the rest of the categories...nuff said...

Yo Pocket, I respect you and your statements...but you shouldn't have the audacity to speak in behalf of Vinnie after merely talking to him for 30 minutes. I for one have talked to Vinnie many times but I don't feel that I know Vinnie enough to voice his opinions publicly, at least until I get consent from him personally. Even if Vinnie did say those things to you, what makes you think that you know Vinnie enough that he is not inclined to rescind those statements, or even those were feelings at that present time??

Man I got to go back to work before I get fired...peace..

[milesaway]

I suck.

[MethodAir]

"there has to be an absolute legitimate standard of reference for which one can judge drum excellence:"

There isn't one, and never will be. Music isn't meant to be quantized into some binary code, and evaluated based on a stringent set of phrasing rules and dogmas.
We're talking 'interpretation...'

"no drummer alive has more impressive bio-work-history-data than Vinnie Colaiuta..NO ONE"

Again, you can't quantize it...

Comparisons and opinions are one thing, but dismissing players because they don't conform to your model of drumming perfection, is another issue altogether.

MethodAir
www.electricmountain.com

[FuseU1]

.. now, dude, dont say that - YOU DONT SUCK - u just had an opinion. Just remember, ever1 is at the level that THEY ARE AT at this moment - like Navy said, u cant rush or force it, these things take lots of time, practice, repition, patience, diligance, & perserverance. Its absolutely OKAY where u are right now. Do u think VC, DW, DC, GN, DiCenso, or Virg just jumped outta their mommas playin like that?![LOL] Take it easy on yourself. You'll get to be wher u want & need to be in only the amount odf time it takes to get there!!! So, dont worry! Its a lifelong thing, a journey [like the other guys in here say] - even VC understands this!! Thats why HE doesnt bag on other players! & he's the greatest!
& dude, it takes a BIG person to come clean like u did, so pat yourself on the back - RIGHT ON!!!

[FuseU1]

[My above post was for Skunk Funk....]

[jonthibault]

Congratulations to Pocketplayer for completely missing the point of my last post.

[PocketPlayer]

I’m not sure who member #45607 is, I assume it is JBault because his name has been removed from all his posts. I thought he stood by his comments??? Well, I’ve read your last post, and all of your posts over and I think I got the point, as did Mr. Van Horn. What else can be said about that? This is a forum that uses the written word as a means of communicating. What else can one go by than that which was written? There is no tone of voice, non-verbal gestures to make a point, only words.

If you go back and read my posts over, I started by saying JBault seems like the "from the gut" kinda guy. I thought his Chick Corea comment was hilarious after the Bowl concert and feel he might be the ‘life of the party’ type of personality. All well and good. I just wish he’d have supported his ‘suck list’ with a little more insight. Again, I posted XNavy’s original question, someone who was looking for real insight into why Dave Weckl has really taken things up a notch after his Chick Corea performance at the Hollywood Bowl.

I thought that was a great question and looked forward to guys making insighful comments, similar to the ones I’ve read over many posts. And I did agree with a lot of what rhythmatician just said regarding a standard of excellence. My post weeks ago about seeking drumming habits, “The Seven Habits” was about that very thing. I will concede that quoting Vinnie was a push, but it seemed to directly relate to this conversation. Yet, Rick Van Horn’s comments stand firm. Again, I’m going back to respect. Look at this man’s credentials. I would think one who is serious about drumming has to be willing to hear Mr.Van Horn’s comments about the various duties of drummer’s playing different musical styles. If there isn’t, then we’re dealing with a fool here and there is nothing anyone can say. I guess that’s the freedom some might feel in an Interent forum-no apparent accountability to comments. “However, to vent one's opinions on the
'net in such a vitriolic way, with no substantive support for them, seems immature and rude.”
My whole point of getting into all of this and sticking with it is because this forum has been great and continues to be great. I’ve learned a lot here and have shared music and clinics with many good guys. So when I saw the slam w/o references comments, etc., I thought it warranted a challenge. Hey, there is no way I could have this depth of conversation with the kids in line before seeing Virgil last week who basically ranted about their suck list. Again, these guys were at best 20yo’s, so I expect that sort of talk, especially when they both seemed to be feeding off each other in line. It was VERY hard to hear these guys slam Steve Smith, David Garibaldi, and Abe Laborial Jr in such a condemning manner (you know that tone of voice that seems to be all about impressing your friends, slamming another to uplift yourself) because they couldn’t play double bass like Virgil. I just stood in line, laughing to myself. It was ridiculous and immature...we’ve all met and said stupid things as kids. This forum lends itself to examining statements. My intention in this post really has little to do with anybody in this forum, but the “thought” itself, that is the mentality of slamming, critiquing without putting up and goods for those comments. If someone has an opinion about another drummer (and you’re entitled to your opinion- we all agree with that) it just seems very condemning to me and rude to vent openly about another drummer(s) in a forum thinking there might be no comment or feedback. State your opinion, but don’t be malicious about it. I’ve visited other music forums that seem to just be about ranting and slamming- what type of people hang out here? IMO, kids. So if they like this sort of thing, cool, they have a place to rant.
House Of Drumming and this forum seemed to be on a much higher plane and that’s what I’ve enjoyed about it. I’m not sure why someone would use references like Gandhi or Jesus just because someone wanted to keep the standard of communication on a higher level. Did you think you could make all those comments and not get feedback? Go back and read your ‘suck’ list. What a compliment to this forum that someone like Rick Van Horn would stop by. Doesn’t that say it all right there? Again, this is opinion, but opinion based on some common sense supported by individuals who IMO are some very high caliber folk. It’s respect again.

[Nikk]

Hahaha. None of this really matters anyway because we're the dudes discussing it on a message board, and they're the ones playing. (not that some of us aren't.) Seriously, though, I see where Pocket AND T-bo are coming from.
T-bo-I agree with the idea that we should be able to say "this person sucks." I think it's that sort of passion that keeps our drumming vital. And I don't mean in some cosmic BS way. What I mean is our opinions of who sucks keep us constantly moving away from the playing we dislike. Thus, our personalities become more refined. Yes, our personalities will become refined anyway without saying "he sucks" but why not be strong in our convictions? This is a message board, after all.
Pocket Player- I know what you mean too. But, I think your response was out of bounds. T-bo merely said one thing. You gave some below-the-belters. What he said about your high-horse did not require the litany of insults you dealt him.

Carter Beauford sucks. No, I could not play what he does. But what he does simply does not appeal to me. Billy Cobham sucks and is an asshole. I've told him this before on his message board and discussed it with him.
The Most badass drummers on the planet-
Dave Weckl
Vinnie Colaiuta
Bill Stewart
Danny Gottlieb
Steve Fidyk
Peter Erskine

Freaking check out Scott Kreitzer's "Kick'n'off" record. It features a 21-year-old, fresh outta college Bill Stewart. I just burned my drum set.

[Steve Holmes]

Interesting to think that Rick might Lurk here. It's interesting having your own web site/forum. You never know who's gonna show up.
I sometimes have trouble understanding what makes those who lurk..lurk (and not post).
Oh well. I'm just happy that you guys can find some sort of enjoyment here. This thread was the first one that ever had me considering "moderating" but I don't think anyone really got out of hand. Disagreeing with one's opinion is one thing, insulting someone is another. I'm not afraid of the DELETE button though.
Well now that we know Rick lurks here we need to start a petition to get me on the next MD fest. [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[PocketPlayer]

Right on Jonthibault! I may completely disagree with you on this one particular subject, but at least we all know where you draw your foot in the sand- I do respect you for that!